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Friday, March 6, 2009

Re:URGENT AND IMPORTANT! Anything for money: what about the Cenacle?Some responses.

Rabbi Dov,

I know it is hard to believe the worst about people, it is not a pleasant and easy task: illusions are so much more pleasant.

However, to dispel your dreams of love and friendship underlying this visit, please read below what the FINALIZATION OF THE AGREEMENT means: what the Church wants, and what it is offering in exchange. In Yiddish, they say: 'bubkes". You complained that they are not offering to return our properties: not so: they are willing to return to us a SYNAGOGUE THAT WAS STOLEN FROM THE JEWS OF SPAIN DURING THE INQUISITION AND TURNED INTO A CHURCH:

SANTA MARIA LA BLANCA IN TOLEDO. If you go to the link, you can see the picture of that Church/Synagogue.


Shabbat Shalom. Please pass it on.


Times Online Logo 222 x 25

From The Times
October 13, 2005

Vatican offers swap deal to regain site of Last Supper

From Richard Owen in Rome
THE Vatican is hoping to regain control of the Room of the Last Supper in Jerusalem, one of the most sacred sites in Christianity.

It will, in exchange, hand over to the Jewish community the historic synagogue at Toledo in Spain, at present a Catholic church.

The proposals, contained in a draft agreement between the Israeli Government and the Vatican, come on the eve of a state visit to the Vatican next month by President Katzav. Final details on a long-delayed accord on the status of Roman Catholic properties in the Holy Land are expected to be agreed during the visit, marking a new era of reconciliation between Christians and Jews after centuries of hostility.

The Upper Room, where the Last Supper is said to have taken place, is held by Christians to be the place where Jesus broke bread and drank wine with the disciples on the eve of his Crucifixion and also where the Holy Spirit descended on the disciples at Pentecost.

The Last Supper has become an iconic Christian image, painted most famously by Leonardo. The Room of the Last Supper is the fourth most holy place in Christendom after the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem, built over Christ's tomb, the Basilica of the Annunciation in Nazareth, where the Virgin Mary was told by an angel she was to give birth, and the Basilica of the Nativity in Bethlehem, where the birth took place.

The present Gothic-arched room is not the original but was built by the Crusaders in the 14th century. It was taken over in 1342 by the Franciscans, the Catholic custodians of Christian sites in the Holy Land.

Along with the rest of Jerusalem, it fell to the Ottoman Turks in the 16th century and was transformed into a mosque, whose Arabic inscriptions are still visible. Since the foundation of Israel the area has served as the site of Jewish yeshivas, or religious schools, since Jews believe that the Tomb of King David lies beneath the spot.

Il Messaggero, the Rome daily, said possible reciprocal gestures include the return to Jewish control of the 12th-century synagogue in Toledo, which, after the suppression of Judaism in Spain in the 15th century, became the Church of Santa María La Blanca.

A synod of bishops in the Vatican, the first to be held by Pope Benedict, is currently discussing issues related to the Eucharist, or Holy Communion.

The renewed Christian-Jewish dialogue comes on the 40th anniversary of Nostra Aetate, the Second Vatican Council document which condemned anti-Semitism and paved the way for the establishment of diplomatic relations between Israel and the Vatican in 1993.

The German-born Pope has reached out to Jews as well as Muslims since his election in April, and in August visited the Cologne synagogue.


  • The Upper Room is in a building outside the Dormition Abbey behind the Franciscan house on Mount Zion in Jerusalem
  • King David's Tomb is believed to be at the base of the building
  • It is thought to also be the scene of Jesus' appearance before the Apostles after the Resurrection and the descent of the Holy Spirit upon them at Pentecost
  • The building was the seat of the Mother Church of Jerusalem for many years, and was a Franciscan medieval friary until 1561
  • The room was later turned into a mosque, as shown by the mihrab (niche set in the wall indicating the direction of Mecca) and Arabic inscription forbidding public prayer at the site

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Take in account this possibility also



From: Moshe Kerr []
Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 5:06 AM
דב שטיין
Subject: Re: FW: URGENT AND IMPORTANT! Anything for money: what about the Cenacle?Some responses.


Here's a relavent article concerning the coming trip of the poop.


RABBI-POPE Mar-3-2009 (560 words) xxxi

Rabbi says trip to Israel can help pope show his respect for Judaism

By Cindy Wooden
Catholic News Service

ROME (CNS) -- Poland's chief rabbi said he hopes Pope Benedict XVI's trip to Israel will be an opportunity for the pope to demonstrate to the world his deep knowledge of and respect for Judaism.

Rabbi Michael Schudrich, the U.S.-born chief rabbi of Poland, said the May trip can be "very enlightening and help Pope Benedict show in a very clear way" the sensitivity and respect that has been clear in his writings for decades.

"I am full of hope," the rabbi told Catholic News Service March 2 after delivering the second annual Pope John Paul II Lecture on Interreligious Understanding at Rome's Pontifical University of St. Thomas Aquinas.

Rabbi Schudrich's speech focused on how he learned from "the life and actions" of Pope John Paul about the importance of interreligious dialogue and of being willing to learn from members of other religions.

But the rabbi said he could not talk about Catholic-Jewish relations without acknowledging that "it clearly was very painful" when Pope Benedict lifted the excommunication in January of traditionalist Bishop Richard Williamson, who had denied the extent of the Holocaust.

"It is not my place to tell or even suggest to Pope Benedict or the Vatican what they should or should not do," the rabbi said. The incident has demonstrated that 40 years of improving relations make it possible for Jews and Catholics to speak openly when offended or hurt, he said.

"It is just because of the past 40 years of dialogue and discussions that we were able to face this dark moment," he said. "It was a test for us, but it also taught us that we have no other option than to rededicate ourselves to dialogue in an even deeper and more meaningful way."

In an interview after his speech, the rabbi said the Williamson affair caused many people to "jump to the conclusion" that Pope Benedict was not scandalized by Holocaust denial.

But Rabbi Schudrich said he and others who know the writings of the pope know that is not true.

"John Paul II was a great theological thinker, but even more, he knew how to get his point across" through his words and gestures, the rabbi said, adding that Pope Benedict's trip to Israel should give him an opportunity to do the same.

In his speech, the rabbi said Pope John Paul's attitude toward Judaism and other religions helped him discover a teaching present within Judaism as well: The fact that God created each person in his image and likeness means that each person has something to teach us.

"If God created us all as his children and created us so that all of us would learn to love him and each other, then it must be the fulfillment of God's plan when we seek inspiration and truth from each other," the rabbi said.

"The more I am open to other religions, the better Jew I become," he said. "Furthermore, when I close myself off from the outside world, I limit my access to the rays of light, truth and wisdom" present in others.

"This philosophy is so profound, so changed my view of the world, of my God and of myself, that all I can say is 'Thank you, Pope John Paul II for teaching me how to become a better person and a better Jew,'" Rabbi Schudrich said.


2009/3/6 דב שטיין <>

אבקשך לשים לב לידיעה זו הכתובה בהאגלית. ד"ר דייזי שטרן התמחתה בדליית נתונים של העולם הקתולי נוצרי ומעריכה שהממשלה היוצאת עומדת לתת לאפיפיור מתנת פרידה של "מקומות קדושים"

לשם כל מוציאים כסף רב לשחפוצים וה"מסחרה" הזו תהיה מתנה שב"זכותה" עומד האפיפיור להגיע לבקור בארץ

יצויין שלא נעשתה למיצער כנראה שו דרישה נגדית לדרישת האפיפיור לקבל מקומות שהוא טוען ששייכים לנוצרים

היינו השבה למיצער של שכיות החמדה היהודיות הנמצאים במרתפי הוותיקן משוד של עמנו במשך 2000 שנה

דב שטיין

מזכיר הסנהדרין


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