| then this is the trial run by israel for the slime here in america to judge how, when and where to go to martial law here soon... we are always trying things out for the slime... whether its weapons, expulsions of our own people or now martial law... just the way i see it... nik.
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Wednesday, December 31, 2008
I don't know if you paid attention to what this means: in essence, HOMELAND SECURITY/FEMA OF ISRAEL HAS ESTABLISHED MARTIAL LAW FOR 600,000 ISRAELIS. Rings a bell??
Re: Crazy story claimed by Hal Turner about HUGE FINANCIAL SCANDAL INVOLVING ISRAEL AND CONGRESS: read this, it's worth is, I WONDER, again, IF IT IS TRUE... and what would be the consequences?
Adina said:
DS, the proof as they say will be in the pudding. Turner knows that without such documentation, the charges remain just that, specious charges from a rabid anti-semite.
That being said, I fear this is true. Israeli leaders are corrupt to the core, as are many in Congress, we all know this.
The disturbing part though is not the charges, nor are its ramifications. The odious part is that the reason why an Israeli blew the whistle on this is because they are fed up with Arab deaths, NOT Jewish ones. The only thing I would want to know is - who is the traitor in the Knesset who gave this info? It is either an Arab MK or one of the radical Peace Now/Death Now brigade.
IF the shit hits the fan on this I think a Jewish fatwa needs to be placed on the head of the leaker. While I am all for the downfall of our corrupt leaders, I am not in favor of it coming about in the service of our enemies.
Adina
I told you so: LOOK WHO is admitting what this war is all about! Straight from the horse's mouth: GEORGETOWN JESUIT UNIVERSITY, SHALEM CENTER... We are sending in our boys into the fire for the NWO! Now you understand why Bush etc. want the Gaza war!
- OPINION
- DECEMBER 29, 2008
Palestinians Need Israel to Win
If Hamas gets away with terror once again, the peace process will be over.
By MICHAEL B. OREN and YOSSI KLEIN HALEVI
Jerusalem
A quarter century has passed since Israel last claimed to go to war in the name of peace.
"Operation Peace for Galilee" -- Israel's 1982 invasion of Lebanon -- failed to convince the international public and even many Israelis that its goal was to promote reconciliation between Israel and the Arab world. In fact, the war had precisely the opposite results, preparing the way for Yasser Arafat's disastrous return to the West Bank and Gaza, and for Hezbollah's ultimate domination of Lebanon. And yet, Israel's current operation in Gaza is essential for creating the conditions that could eventually lead to a two-state solution.
![[Commentary]](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/blogger_img_proxy/AEn0k_vy3IRHA7bwKrTQ3uXws18r-XpfUgZLZU0l6ZEHmxrlLChfoQD_1fAvuDk1baSF-PJn_IWmNsXtXd6tpJLfV8d3gWkBeNhBwwp3clPJI-r-FdskOnFdie-RsmSLeqymDtvCupEJieO4iS14BKS3maUE=s0-d)
APHamas's central security headquarters and prison in Gaza City is hit by an Israeli missile strike, Dec. 28.
Over the past two decades, a majority of Israelis have shifted from adamant opposition to Palestinian statehood to acknowledging the need for such a state. This transformation represented a historic victory for the Israeli left, which has long advocated Palestinian self-determination. The left's victory, though, remained largely theoretical: The right won the practical argument that no amount of concessions would grant international legitimacy to Israel's right to defend itself.
That was the unavoidable lesson of the failure of the Oslo peace process, which ended in the fall of 2000 with Israel's acceptance of President Bill Clinton's proposal for near-total withdrawal from East Jerusalem and the territories. The Palestinians responded with five years of terror.
Yet much of the international community blamed Israel for the violence and repeatedly condemned its efforts at self-defense. The experience left a deep wound in the Israeli psyche. It intimidated Israeli leaders from taking security measures liable to be denounced by the United Nations and the European Union, or worse, result in sanctions against the Jewish state.
One consequence was an Israeli reluctance to respond to periodic Hezbollah provocations following Israel's unilateral withdrawal from Lebanon in May 2000. This hesitancy allowed the Shiite terror organization to amass a rocket arsenal with the proclaimed intent of devastating Israel's population centers.
Finally, when Hezbollah unleashed its weapons in July 2006, Israel was widely accused of responding disproportionately. It was pressured into prematurely ending its defensive operations in Lebanon, and compelled to accept an international "peacekeeping" force that has permitted Hezbollah to rearm far beyond its prewar levels.
Israelis are now asking themselves whether their Lebanon nightmare is about to repeat itself in Gaza. The parallels are indeed striking. As in Lebanon, Israel in 2005 unilaterally withdrew to its international border with Gaza and received, instead of security, a regime dedicated to its destruction. The thousands of rockets and mortar shells subsequently fired on Israeli neighborhoods represented more than a crude attempt to kill and terrorize civilians -- they were expressions of a genocidal intent.
Israelis across the political spectrum agreed that the state had the right, indeed the duty, to protect its people. But one question remained: Would the international community consent?
That question grew urgent in the days before Dec. 19, when the tenuous cease-fire between Israel and Hamas expired. Nearly 300 missiles landed in Israel, paralyzing much of the southern part of the country. Yet Israeli leaders held their fire.
Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni flew to Cairo to implore Egyptian leaders to urge restraint on Hamas, and Prime Minister Ehud Olmert told viewers of Al-Arabiyah Television that Israel had no interest in a military confrontation. If Israel was guilty of acting disproportionately, it was in its willingness to seek any means, even at the risk of its citizens' lives, to resolve the crisis diplomatically.
Yet the U.N. Security Council abstained from condemning Hamas and convened only after Israel resolved to act. The U.N.'s hypocrisy, together with growing media criticism of Israel, is reinforcing Israeli concerns that territorial concessions, whether unilateral or negotiated, will only compromise the country's security and curtail its ability to respond to attack. This fear is compounded when Israelis consider withdrawals from the West Bank, which is within easy rocket range of its major population and industrial centers.
Gaza is the test case. Much more is at stake than merely the military outcome of Israel's operation. The issue, rather, is Israel's ability to restore its deterrence power and uphold the principle that its citizens cannot be targeted with impunity.
Without the assurance that they will be allowed to protect their homes and families following withdrawal, Israelis will rightly perceive a two-state solution as an existential threat. They will continue to share the left-wing vision of coexistence with a peaceful Palestinian neighbor in theory, but in reality will heed the right's warnings of Jewish powerlessness.
The Gaza crisis also has implications for Israeli-Syrian negotiations. Here, too, Israelis will be unwilling to cede strategically vital territories -- in this case on the Golan Heights -- in an international environment in which any attempt to defend themselves will be denounced as unjustified aggression. Syria's role in triggering the Gaza conflict only deepens Israeli mistrust. The Damascus office of Hamas, which operates under the aegis of the regime of Bashar al Assad, vetoed the efforts of Hamas leaders in Gaza to extend the cease-fire and insisted on escalating rocket attacks.
In the coming days, the Gaza conflict is likely to intensify with a possible incursion of Israeli ground forces. Israel must be allowed to conclude this operation with a decisive victory over Hamas; the untenable situation of intermittent rocket fire and widespread arms smuggling must not be allowed to resume. This is an opportunity to redress Israel's failure to humble Hezbollah in Lebanon in 2006, and to deal a substantial setback to another jihadist proxy of Iran.
It may also be the last chance to reassure Israelis of the viability of a two-state solution. Given the unfortunate historical resonance, Israel should refrain from calling its current operation, "Peace for Southern Israel." But without Hamas's defeat, there can be no serious progress toward a treaty that both satisfies Palestinian aspirations and allays Israel's fears.
At stake in Gaza is nothing less than the future of the peace process.
Mr. Oren is a fellow at the Shalem Center in Jerusalem and a professor at the School of Foreign Service at Georgetown University. Mr. Klein Halevi is a fellow at the Shalem Center's Adelson Institute for Strategic Studies.
More thoughts re: "The Torah scholars in Israel are its true guardians, and they are being attacked at the very time that they are most needed to protect the Jewish people"
DS: it reminds me of the deal KASTNER MADE WITH EICHMANN AND THE NAZIS: WE GIVE YOU 900,000 HUNGARIAN JEWS, YOU LET ME SAVE MY FAMILY MEMBERS.. and another 1800 or so Jews .... all the rest can be sacrificed.
bill:
bill:
ok!
DS
By ENEMY, I mean ROME, CFR, THE PTB. THEY are the ones who want the rabbis, THEY are the ones who ultimately make the decisions, and THEY are the ones who will decide which part of Israel is being showered with rockets. how do you know they didn;'t make the deal:
no rockets on Ramat Aviv Gimmel, or Cesarea, or Kfar Saba; you can have Beersheva, Ashkelon, Ashdod, Tel-Aviv even. Just leave US be.
The PTB are intimately involved in this war.
DS
bill
WRONG. The Hamas people actually prefer the Torah scholars over the secular Israelis. So, this is not a maneuver to placate the Arabs.
DS
I guess.... or just traitors, who made a deal with the enemy: we give you the JEWS, YOU LET US LIVE.
ds
bill:THE SECULAR GOVERNMENT PEOPLE ARE OUR VERSION OF THE ARAB SUICIDE BOMBERS--READY TO KILL THEMSELVES, IN ORDER TO DESTROY THE TORAH.
Investigation Rabbi Kanievsky (L)
click here to enlarge text
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Attorney General's office launches several investigations against prominent religious figures following several media reports suggesting rabbi decreed that Jews were no longer allowed to hire Arab laborers
Aviad Glickman
Deputy Attorney General Shai Nitzan instructed the police to launch an investigation against several prominent rabbis in the Orthodox community on suspicion of incitement.
Tuesday's decision followed petition filed by the Israel Religious Action Center (IRAC) back in March. The IRAC filed its petition following several media reports suggesting Rabbi Chaim Kanievsky decreed that Jews were no longer allowed to hire Arab laborers.
The rabbi issued the alleged ordinance following the deadly attack on Mercaz Harav rabbinical seminary in Jerusalem.Also implicated in the case is Haim Barzilai, Rabbi Kanievsky's operations officers, who reportedly sent "supervisors" out to the Orthodox community in order to ensure that the rabbi's word was adhered.
The Attorney General's Office did, however, find no grounds to launch an investigation against Rabbi Kanievsky at this time.
The IRAC also asked the State to investigate alleged incitement by other prominent rabbis, the likes of Yitzhak Shapira, David Drukman, Daniel Stavsky, Ido Alba and Rabbi Yehuda Kroizer.
The rabbis are suspected of issuing calls for revenge against Arabs following the attack on Mercaz Harav.
Two-dozen rabbis are also suspected of distributing flyers after the bulldozer attacks in Jerusalem, describing east Jerusalem residents as "the tip of the iceberg of a national problem which has become an existential threat to the people is Zion."
Also under investigation is Rabbi Dov Lior of Kiryat Arba, who warned his followers against the perils of hiring Arabs or having them as tenants.
The Israel Religious Action Center issued a statement saying "over the past few months we have seen deterioration in incitement activity in Israel. This matter should concern anyone who cares about the Israeli democracy. We welcome these investigation and home the will serve justice."
Back
Crazy story claimed by Hal Turner about HUGE FINANCIAL SCANDAL INVOLVING ISRAEL AND CONGRESS: read this, it's worth is, I WONDER, again, IF IT IS TRUE... and what would be the consequences?
Carl,
http://www.halturnershow.blogspot.com/
I did check it out. And indeed, if it is true, it is quite a story. And I wouldn't be surprised,. Still, first, I'd like to see real proof, not just claim of such.
Second, the ones really in trouble are the Americans, not the Israelis.
Third, I wouldn't mind seeing these government Israelis paying the price, as long as they are the typical garbage characters, even if the source of the leak is diametrically opposed to my views, But in the end, who knows, salvation might come from the most unlikely places, such as the extreme left. They tell on the slime for the wrong reasons; as long as the slime pays, why should I care? I just hope it doesn't hurt Am Yisrael.
DS
3.Carl wrote.
http://www.halturnershow.blogspot.com/
I did check it out. And indeed, if it is true, it is quite a story. And I wouldn't be surprised,. Still, first, I'd like to see real proof, not just claim of such.
Second, the ones really in trouble are the Americans, not the Israelis.
Third, I wouldn't mind seeing these government Israelis paying the price, as long as they are the typical garbage characters, even if the source of the leak is diametrically opposed to my views, But in the end, who knows, salvation might come from the most unlikely places, such as the extreme left. They tell on the slime for the wrong reasons; as long as the slime pays, why should I care? I just hope it doesn't hurt Am Yisrael.
DS
3.Carl wrote.
:
-2.
Carl, I have limited energies. Right now, we are very involved with this war, which is hitting us very close. We are discussing existential matters now. Please forgive me for not being that interested in the topic. I'll take a look, but I have no intention of becoming a Hal Turner fan. ARE YOU????
Actually, I saw a videoclip to that effect, presented by some arab. Credibility: 0! References?0 Proof?0.
Bring proof instead of allegations, and then we'll talk.
But I have not seen the Hal Turner accusations yet - so far, I consider it antisemitic banter.
DS
1.Carl wrote:
OY, VEY, these women are such losers. THIS woman says: YES TO OBLITERATION OF THE ENEMY, using every single one of these masculine terms. Maybe we need a coalition of WOMEN FOR WAR , BUT ONLY FROM THE AIR: CARPET BOMB THEM!
Women's Groups Organizing 'Huge Rally' Against Gaza Operation
Tevet 4, 5769, 31 December 08 06:16
by Gil Ronen(IsraelNN.com) A broad coalition of Israeli women's groups is organizing the first large demonstration against the IDF's counter-terror operation in Gaza, "Cast Lead." The demonstration, which organizers believe will be "huge," will take place in Haifa Friday and will call on Israel to accept the international initiatives for an immediate ceasefire.
The organizers number 18 groups, including the Coalition of Women for Peace (itself a coalition which includes groups like Machsom Watch and Women in Black), Ahoti, Ruach Nashit, Isha L'Isha, Bat Shalom, The Organization for Women's Economic Empowerment, Women's Parliament and other groups.
In a letter to Prime Minister Ehud Olmert and Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni, the women's groups demanded an immediate cessation of hostilities in Gaza. "The masculine way of killing and destruction must stop and give way to women's language and action for peace and dialogue between nations," they wrote.
'A wide range of political views'
Claiming to represent "a wide range of political views," the women's groups demanded "an end to the use of instruments of killing and bombs, and to immediately sit around the negotiating table and talk peace, not war."
"We want the cycle of killing and destruction to cease," they added.
Feminist groups and pundits were the first to come out against the Gaza operation from its outset. In an op-ed for Maariv/NRG Sunday, feminist activist Dorit Rabinovich called upon Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni to oppose the war.
"In a move that is nothing but pure chauvinism and sexism, made up of slogans about invasion, occupation, penetration and a disregard for the will of the public in the country, this is Livni's time to say 'enough' to the government's rape of society," she wrote.
Rabinovich predicted that soon, hundreds of thousands would take to the streets against the war, and the pundits will also come out against it. As a precedent she cited the successful protest by women's groups against the IDF security zone in Lebanon, which was aided by feminist journalists like Shelly Yechimovich (now a Labor MK). That movement is credited with causing then-Prime Minister Ehud Barak's decision to withdraw from Lebanon in 2000.
Complaint to the UNSC
On Monday, a coalition of Israeli women's groups filed a complaint against Israel to the United Nations Security Council. The groups claimed that Israel is not complying by a law passed in 2005 that requires the participation of women in the Israeli government's decision-making forums.
According to Attorney Anat Tahoun Ashkenazi of Itach-Maaki, "the winds of war prove the need for placing women in the government institutions and the centers of decision making."
© Copyright IsraelNationalNews.com
Subscribe to the free Daily Israel Report - sub.israelnn.com
PrintREALLY CLEAR AND CONCISE: Gaza: The Inside Story
Thank you, Jack, for this great interview.DS
"…Hamas knew that Israel would respond with force and probably looked forward to it on some level. They readied their photographers and public relations people to begin disseminating stories of Israeli "aggression."
"Hamas now hopes for an Israeli ground assault. Hamas has used this six-month tahdiyeh (calm or lull, in Arabic) to build up its arsenal. Over the last half-year, they have stockpiled katyusha rockets, grad rockets, mines, high-powered sniper rifles, night vision goggles, sophisticated anti-tank missiles, and deadly Iranian explosives. They've also created an elaborate reinforced bunker system. So, if the Israel Defense Forces enters Gaza, the Hamas fighting forces they encounter will be fierce. Even small victories in a war that Hamas will almost certainly lose will help boost the Hamas image. The group casts itself as David battling Goliath. In this way, they almost can't lose unless they are completely annihilated." (Emphasis added)
Unfortunately, the Israeli government does not seem to understand that. I am afraid they will leave it off half done like they did with Hezbollah and Hamas will emerge the victor.
Jack
Gaza: The Inside Story
By Jamie Glazov
FrontPageMagazine.com | 12/31/2008
Frontpage Interview's guest today is Jonathan Schanzer, deputy director of the Jewish Policy Center. He has served as a counterterrorism analyst at the U.S. Department of Treasury and as a research fellow at Washington Institute for Near East Policy. He is the author of the new book, Hamas vs. Fatah: The Struggle For Palestine. Daniel Pipes wrote the foreword to the book and some of the research was undertaken at Pipes' Middle East Forum.
FP: Jonathan Schanzer, welcome to Frontpage Interview.
Schanzer: Thanks, Jamie.
FP: You are an expert on Hamas and Fatah. What were Hamas's calculations in it its rocket attacks?
Schanzer: First, it is important to stress that these rocket volleys are not at all new. Hamas has been firing rockets consistently at Israel for many years now – since 2001. Even during the recent ceasefire, or "lull" as some call it, Hamas fired salvo after salvo of rockets against Israel.
From a targeting perspective, as I note in my book, Hamas really has no calculations. Qassam rockets are very crude homemade weapons. They are virtually impossible to fire with any accuracy. Hamas simply aims them in the direction of Israeli civilian populations and then hopes that they cause damage or casualties.
In terms of a broader strategy, Hamas fires these rockets because its financial patron, Iran, encourages the group to do so. In fact, I would venture to say that Hamas would not have broken the ceasefire had it not gotten permission from the Mullahs to do so.
On a grassroots level, Hamas gains popularity by carrying out violence against the Jewish state. In other words, causing Israeli bloodshed strengthens Hamas's political standing on the Palestinian street, where the majority puts a premium on anti-Israel violence.
FP: So if the majority of Palestinians in Gaza support Hamas's vision of destroying Israel, which is reflected in the fact that the Palestinians elected these radical Islamists to power in 2006, how exactly can the world not blame the Palestinians for what we now see unfolding? Expand for us a bit on Palestinians' support for violence against Jews and how any peace can even be possible if that kind of hate is not dealt with and denounced.
Schanzer: You get to the crux of the Palestinian–Israeli conflict here. The conflict exists because most Palestinians still seek the destruction of the State of Israel. This is why Hamas, an organization that is known primarily for its suicide bombings and rocket attacks against Israel, won the popular vote in the free and fair legislative elections of 2006. Suicide attacks and rocketing get wide approval ratings in the Palestinian territories. This is, to some extent, why Hamas and other groups continue to employ these violent tactics. The decision to support murder and bloodshed is now backfiring horribly on the Palestinian people.
FP: Did Hamas hope for this Israeli response?
Schanzer: Unquestionably, Hamas knew that Israel would respond with force and probably looked forward to it on some level. They readied their photographers and public relations people to begin disseminating stories of Israeli "aggression."
Hamas now hopes for an Israeli ground assault. Hamas has used this six-month tahdiyeh (calm or lull, in Arabic) to build up its arsenal. Over the last half-year, they have stockpiled katyusha rockets, grad rockets, mines, high-powered sniper rifles, night vision goggles, sophisticated anti-tank missiles, and deadly Iranian explosives. They've also created an elaborate reinforced bunker system. So, if the Israel Defense Forces enters Gaza, the Hamas fighting forces they encounter will be fierce. Even small victories in a war that Hamas will almost certainly lose will help boost the Hamas image. The group casts itself as David battling Goliath. In this way, they almost can't lose unless they are completely annihilated.
FP: So why does the international community support Hamas in its tahdiyeh when it is so clearly employed just as a preparation for renewed conflict against Israel?
Schanzer: The international community wants to avoid conflict at all costs, even when it's just kicking the can down the road. That's exactly what happened here. The tahdiyeh was just a temporary calm that enabled Hamas to prepare for another round of fighting.
My question here is not why the international community supported this re-arming period. I question the Israeli rationale for allowing Hamas to replenish its military supplies, train fighters, and prepare for battle.
FP: Let's move on to the military action itself. Why did Israel react and why now? Is it the right thing to do? Is Israel going about it the right way?
Schanzer: What the public needs to understand is that this violence did not simply "break out," which is what the mainstream media reports. Back in June, Hamas declared that it would maintain a lull in violence against Israel for six months. This was not an agreement with Israel. It was a unilateral decision. Similarly, it was a unilateral decision for Hamas to begin firing rockets into Israel when Hamas chose to end its ceasefire. Not surprisingly, when the rockets began to rain down on Israel, the Israel Defense Forces responded. And it is doing so in accordance with international law.
There are, of course, those who make ludicrous claims of "disproportional force." But these are merely opinions of what an appropriate response might look like. This has nothing to do with the legality of Israel's military operations.
In my opinion, Israel's strategy to date has been the right one. The Israelis have not risked the lives of their soldiers. All the while, the air force continues to pound high value Hamas targets with the help of satellite imagery. The Israelis now warn that there will be new phases in its counteroffensive.
FP: Expand a bit on how what Israel is doing is in accordance with international law.
Schanzer: Without getting too technical here, Israel is hitting only military targets with surgical air strikes and expending great effort to avoid civilian casualties. It has also made a compelling case that it is acting in self-defense. Israel is also warning Gaza residents of impending strikes in some cases to further reduce civilian casualties.
I think it's worth pointing out that when Hamas launches rockets, the goal is to kill as many civilians as possible. Israel takes the opposite approach.
FP: Your thoughts on the hypocrisy of the international community's, the U.N.'s, and the liberal Left's condemnations?
Schanzer: The United Nations's silence in response to Hamas rockets has been deafening. The tired calls for restraint on both sides – after Hamas launched nearly 7,000 rockets into Israel, demonstrates yet again that this international organization lacks credibility.
Surprisingly, some states in the Arab world – notably Egypt and Saudi Arabia – have condemned Hamas for the violence. Similarly, some European states – notably Germany and the Czech Republic – have stood behind Israel's decision to respond. I expect this support to trail off, however, the longer these operations continue.
As for the liberal Left, we continue to see blind condemnations of Israel's self-defense measures. This is nothing new.
FP: What explains the United Nations' silence in response to Hamas rockets?
Schanzer: The United Nations has lost all perspective regarding the Arab-Israeli conflict. Many nations vilify Israel simply because it is a close and vital ally to the United States. Perhaps more to the point, these nations realize they need Arab oil more than they care about international justice. Thus, they vote the way the Arab regimes lobby them to vote. Again, the U.N. has lost all credibility in recent years.
FP: Why have some states in the Arab world, like Egypt and Saudi Arabia, condemned Hamas for the violence?
Schanzer: I believe these nations fear the creeping power of the Iranian axis. Hamas is clearly in Iran's orbit. None of these Sunni states want Iran's influence to grow any more than it already has.
FP: Fatah has criticized Hamas in all of this? Your interpretation?
Schanzer: As I detail in my book, Fatah is in a full-on war with Hamas. It should therefore come as no surprise that Fatah has slammed Hamas for this confrontation. There are even reports circulating that Fatah seeks to be re-installed as the governing organization in Gaza. We'll have to see whether Israel sees this as an objective.
FP: Should Israel see re-installing Fatah as the governing organization in Gaza as an objective?
Schanzer: In my view, Israel should not hand over control of the Gaza Strip to Fatah for two reasons.
The first reason is that Fatah seeks the destruction of Israel. Yes, there are moderates within. But the organization as a whole still seeks to replace the Jewish state with an Arab one.
The second reason is that a transfer of power to Fatah would almost certainly fail. Fatah is weak. It's a group of loosely-affiliated militias that cannot work together. Accordingly, Fatah would almost certainly fail to hold this territory.
It is also worth noting that the residents of Gaza would reject a transfer of power from Israel to Fatah, primarily because it would be viewed as some sort of malicious Israeli initiative.
FP: Final thoughts?
Schanzer: Israel has all of the means at its disposal to destroy Hamas in the Gaza Strip. It has the strongest, best-trained, and most mechanized military in the Middle East. However, the IDF cannot expect limited operations to eliminate Hamas. Limited means will only yield limited results.
FP: And so you are suggesting?
Schanzer: I'm suggesting that Israel should not stop short of a victory. If Israel fails to fully defeat Hamas – if it does not force it into an unconditional surrender – we will see a repeat of this war in another six months or another year.
FP: Jonathan Schanzer, thank you for joining Frontpage Interview.
Schanzer: Thank you.
Jamie Glazov is Frontpage Magazine's managing editor. He holds a Ph.D. in History with a specialty in U.S. and Canadian foreign policy. He edited and wrote the introduction to David Horowitz's Left Illusions. He is also the co-editor (with David Horowitz) of The Hate America Left and the author of Canadian Policy Toward Khrushchev's Soviet Union (McGill-Queens University Press, 2002) and 15 Tips on How to be a Good Leftist. To see his previous symposiums, interviews and articles Click Here. Email him at jglazov@rogers.com.
Re: A few comments about the Hal Turner claim re: Obama sending his own envoys to Gaza, bypassing Israel, to the latter's dismay.
Rabbi Dov says:
It is a,b,c,… all the world is against us.
G-D is saving us from 70 wolves
Re: Israel has no clear objectives in Gaza
Zerach has this important comment to make:
Do you remember Jenin? How many soldiers died 1st day in ground attack?
They booby trap everything. The only safe method is to bulldoze everything. You can guess that the world doesn't understand the tactics there, they just see the destruction of palestinian homes.
This is a no-win situation. I thought with the 20 day grace period until Obama comes to office would be the perfect time to do as much as physically possible to irradicate Hamas with NOT as much care as humanly possible.
Any hesitation or delays that cause them not to succeed before that Jan 20th date means that WE LOSE. Again
Do you remember Jenin? How many soldiers died 1st day in ground attack?
They booby trap everything. The only safe method is to bulldoze everything. You can guess that the world doesn't understand the tactics there, they just see the destruction of palestinian homes.
This is a no-win situation. I thought with the 20 day grace period until Obama comes to office would be the perfect time to do as much as physically possible to irradicate Hamas with NOT as much care as humanly possible.
Any hesitation or delays that cause them not to succeed before that Jan 20th date means that WE LOSE. Again
That's good! if you have time to read... קיראו (שוב) בבקשה
ET
The facts Drora is bringing forth in this mail are essential, and worth bringing to the knowledge of so many people as possible. I have translated the mail to English, and am sending it to you, asking you to distribute it to as many people as possible.
Thanks, and best regards, Sam
The article "Lieberman, we shall yet step on you", and the answer from the Israeli Arab woman called Samar to this article made the surfer on the Internet Drora to respond.
This is what Samar (the Arab woman from Haifa) wrote:
We are not Israeli Arabs . . . . we are Palestinians with Israeli citizenship. And our citizenship is a technical thing that includes Israeli passport and identity card, which we have to present on demand from Israeli institutions. W-e have a nationality, and according to it we are Palestinian Arabs. We are not Arabs of this country, and we do not agree to be ascribed as such at all. Y-o-u have no nationality. Y-o-u have a religion called Judaism!! and you belong to it, and nothing more!!! Your only creation is the Hebrew language. Except of this, there is nothing that you succeeded to create during the 58 years that you are here as conquerors of the land of another nation!!
You are simply a nation without culture, and without any past that justifies taking pride of. You are simply individuals that got together from the Exile, you came with impudence, in order to fulfill your right for self materialization, on the account of this right of another people. The peace according to Rabin you have killed for ever!
Then, be ashamed, because we have nothing more to talk with you. And I refrain here from any sweeping generalization. I have Jewish friends that are like brothers to me, and I appreciate them very much, but there are people that in order to exist deny the existence of other people.
And this is the answer of Drora:
270. Answer to 84 Samar from Haifa.
Samar from Haifa,
There aren't in the State of Israel or in the areas of Eretz Israel even one single Arab who hasn't an Arabic native country, (and that's why you are Arabs).
You invaded / you flowed in / you intruded – to Eretz Israel under the protection, encouragement and back up of the Ottoman conqueror and of the British conqueror, but just because of that you didn' t turn into the owners or the sovereigns. Open a world map, Arab woman from Israel. You will found that the area of the Arab countries (22) is as big as the area of the European continent, and the area of all the Moslem countries (56) covers almost one third of the Earth.
A mighty area, hard to describe. Oil resources and wealth beyond any description.
Then, it looks like being alright, that the Jewish people shall have a very little country of its own, without having to share it with another Arab Moslem nation, doesn't it ? And let me tell you a few words about the Palestinian "people".
You are not a nation. You are a moslem fiction, whose aim is only one – to conquer
The Land of Israel.
Let us start with your name: The Romans who conquered Israel called it as part of their occupation "Provincia Palestina" – in accordance with the name of the Pilishtim that settled in the Israeli towns along the coast. The Palestinians were red-haired, and came to the coast of Israel f r o m E u r o p e. They disappeared from our region about 1600 years before the birth of Mohammed. There is no connection at all between the Arabs, who originate from the Arabic Peninsula, with the Pilishtim – not genetic, not religious, not cultural, not historic and not geographic. You are Arabs and not Pilishtim. In the same way, the Romans could have called Israel as Provincia Switzerland. Would this have turned you into Swiss?
And with concern to Eretz Israel, Samar from Haifa.
Choose whatever historical document you want, any historical map, any expert in History accepted by the International Academy, that will show us where is Palestine, when in the history of mankind existed a State or a country called Palestine, when in the history of mankind existed a nation that was called the Palestinian nation, who are you, from where did you come, and what is your relationship with the land of Eretz Israel. I cannot find even a single detail at any place in the world, even not at Moslem and Arab researchers (including the Koran, in which Eretz Israel is called"Eretz Israel, the land of the Israeli people"),that will testify your claims.
There is British documentation from the time of the British Mandate, Turkish documentation from the Ottoman period, documentation from all the occupations of the Eretz Israel – there is not the least reminder of a Palestinian people, and not of a Palestinian State.
So, let us conclude, that if you will find any documentation whatsoever (and which is not part of the Palestinian propaganda, that changes post factum historical facts) – as to your existing and being in the Land of Israel – then we shall have something to start with.
You are an occasional accumulation of factions and phalanges from all over the Moslem world, which hate one another almost . . . . almost as you hate us.
This is in fact the only thing that unites you – your hate towards the Zionists.
This is in fact a very poor basis to build on it a nation!
In 1948, the number of the Arabs living in Eretz Israel was identical to the number of Jews living in Arab countries.
The 20th century was a century of emigration and change of population on the whole of our world. All Jews from the Arab countries emigrated to their motherland Israel. All Arabs from Israel ought to emigrate back to their native Arab countries.
Not only that you didn't so – you continued to infiltrate and intrude into Israel in every sophisticated way that one can imagine, and that the weak policy of the State of Israel enabled you to.
In fact, you have today a Palestinian State, it is Jordan. But you want for yourself three Palestines – Jordan, "the New Palestine" that will come into being in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank, and of course that the Israeli Arabs, who identify themselves as Palestinians will continue to live in Israel and will bring to them more and more Palestinian "brothers" from all over the world. So that in another 10 or 20 years will the Jews be a minority in their land, and also Israel will turn into Palestine. This does not suit us. And therefore, this is what will happen at the end, even if our leftists spread illusions that fill your hearts with great hope: you will have to turn back to your native countries. This will happen, either by good, or by sword.
In the course of time (with the Zionist settlement), you adopted the Jewish ethos, which is – the sanctity of Jerusalem, and the right of return to Zion. Indeed, you have built a mosque in the middle of the most holy place of the Jews, (a Moslem custom wide spread in our world), but your holy city is Mecca and not Jerusalem, and the right of return you have only to your native country and not to Zion.
Concluding, I want to turn you to a lovable book, full of humor. Its name is
"A journey of pleasure in the Holy Land". It was written by the author Samuel Longhorn (who is known by the nickname Mark Twain) in the year 1867.
He travelled in Israel across the whole of the country.
He did not see here neither Palestinians, nor any green fruit-gardens, no Arab villages, no bustling towns. Nothing. He saw and describes loneliness, swamps, cholera, malaria, sand dunes. "Eretz Habacha" – "The Land of Crying", so he named Eretz Israel.
All what is here, this paradise called Israel – was built by the Jewish genius.
No wonder that you and your brothers like it.
And if you are sitting in your home connected to electricity and are typing an answer on the computer, it is thanks to the Zionists who organized here a state, that enables you to live in an entirely different standard than 99% of your brethren in the Arab countries.
A Jewish Israeli Citizen
The owner of the place.
צריך לשנן את התשובה החכמה של דרורה, ולהפיץ אותה לכולם בכל דרך!!!!!!
הכתבה "ליברמן, אנחנו עוד נדרוך עליך " ותגובתה של ערבייה ישראלית בשם
סמר לכתבה זו הביאו את הגולשת דרורה להגיב
זה מה שסמר(הערבייה מחיפה) כתבה:
אנחנו לא ערביי ישראל...אנחנו פלסטינים אזרחי מדינת ישראל. והאזרחות שלנו היא דבר טכני הכולל דרכון ותעודת זהות ישראלים שאנחנו מציגים עפ"י בקשת המוסדות המבקשים. ל-נ-ו יש לאום ולפיו אנחנו פלסטינים ערבים. אנחנו לא ערביי המדינה הזו, ואנחנו לא מסכימים להיות מיוחסים לה כלל וכלל. א-ת-ם חסרי לאום. ל-כ-ם יש דת שקוראים לה יהדות!!ואתם משתייכים לה, ותו לא!!! היצירה היחידה שלכם היא השפה העברית. מלבדה, אין דבר אחד שהצלחתם ליצר תוך ה-58 שנים ששהיתם פה ככובשים על אדמתו של עם אחר!!.אתם פשוט עם בלי תרבות, ובלי שום עבר שמצדיק התגאות בו. אתם פשוט פרטים שנאספתם מהגלות, הגעתם בחוצפה, כדי לממש את זכותכם להגשמה עצמית, על חשבונה של הזכות הזו של עם אחר. את השלום נוסח רבין רצחתם לנצח! אז .תתביישו לכם, כי לנו כבר אין מה לדבר איתכם. ואני נמנעת פה מכל הכללה גורפת. לי יש חברים יהודים שהם כמו אחים שלי, ואני מוקירה אותם מאד, אבל ישנם עמים שכדי להתקיים שוללים את קיומו של עם אחר.
וזו תגובתה של דרורה:
270. תשובה ל 84 -סמר מחיפה
סמר מחיפה,
אין במדינת ישראל או בשטחי ארץ ישראל אף לא ערבי אחד שאין לו ארץ מולדת ערבית (ועל כן אתם ערבים ).
פלשתם / זלגתם / חדרתם - לארץ ישראל בחסות, עידוד וגיבוי הכובש העותמני והכובש הבריטי אך לא הפכתם עקב כך לבעלים או ריבונים .
פתחי את מפת העולם, ערביה מישראל. תגלי ששטח המדינות הערביות (22) גדול משטחה של יבשת אירופה, ושטחן של כל המדינות המוסלמיות (56) מכסה כשליש מכדור הארץ. שטח אדיר שאין לתארו. משאבים של נפט ועושר לאין חקר .
אז על פניו נראה שזה ממש בסדר שלעם היהודי תהיה מדינה אחת קטנטונת משלו, מבלי שיהיה עליו להתחלק בה עם עוד עם ערבי מוסלמי, לא ?
ובואי ואומר לך כמה מילים על ה"עם " הפלסטיני. אתם אינכם עם. אתם פיקציה מוסלמית שמטרתה אחת ויחידה - לכבוש את ארץ ישראל.
נתחיל עם השם שלכם :
הרומים שכבשו את ישראל קראו לה כחלק מאקט הכיבוש 'פרוביניקה פלשתינה' - על שם הפלישתים שישבו בערי החוף הישראליות .
הפלישתים היו יורדי ים אדומי שיער שהגיעו לחופי ישראל _מ_א_י_ר_ו_פ_ה_ ונעלמו מאזורנו כ-1600 שנה לפני הולדת מוחמד .
אין לערבים שמקורם בחצי האי ערב כל קשר לפלישתים - לא גנטי, לא דתי, לא תרבותי, לא היסטורי ולא גיאוגרפי. אתם ערבים ולא פלישתים. באותה מידה יכלו הרומים לקרוא לישראל פרוביניקה שוויצריה. האם זה היה הופך אתכם לשוויצרים ?
ואשר לארץ ישראל, סמר מחיפה .
תבחרי כל תיעוד היסטורי, כל מפה היסטורית, כל היסטוריון מקובל ע"י האקדמיה הבינלאומית שיראה לנו איפה פלסטין, מתי הייתה אי פעם בהיסטוריה האנושית מדינה או ארץ שנקראה פלסטין, מתי היה אי פעם בהיסטוריה האנושית "עם" שקראו לו העם הפלסטיני, מי אתם, מאין באתם ומה הקשר שלכם לשטחי ארץ ישראל. לא מצליחה למצוא אף לא פרט אחד בשום מקום בעולם, כולל לא אצל חוקרים מוסלמים וערבים (כולל הקוראן שבו ארץ ישראל נקראת 'ארץ ישראל, ארצו של עם ישראל') שיאשש את טיעונייך .
יש תיעוד בריטי מתקופת המנדט הבריטי, תיעוד תורכי מהתקופה העותמנית, תיעוד של כל הכיבושים שהיו על ארץ ישראל - אין זכר לא לעם פלסטיני ולא למדינה פלסטינית .
ובכן, בואי נסכם שאם תמצאי כל תיעוד שהוא (שאינו חלק מהתעמולה הפלסטינית המשנה עובדות היסטוריות בדיעבד) - להיותכם וקיומכם בארץ ישראל - כבר יש לנו משהו להתחיל ממנו .
אתם צביר מקרי של פלגים ופלנגות מרחבי העולם המוסלמי, השונאים זה את זה כמעט . . . כמעט כמו שאתם שונאים אותנו .
זה למעשה הדבר היחידי המאחד אתכם - השנאה לציונים. זה בסיס עלוב ביותר לכונן על גבו עם !
ב-1948 היה מספר הערבים שישבו בארץ ישראל זהה למספר היהודים שישבו בארצות ערב .
המאה העשרים הייתה מאה של הגירה וחילופי אוכלוסין על פני כדור הארץ כולו .
כל היהודים מארצות ערב היגרו למולדתם ישראל. כל הערבים מישראל היו אמורים להגר חזרה לארצות מולדתם הערביות ..
לא רק שלא עשיתם כך - המשכתם להסתנן ולחדור לשטח ישראל בכל צורה מתוחכמת שאפשר להעלות על הדעת, ושמדיניותה הרופסת של מדינת ישראל אפשרה לכם .
למעשה יש לכם היום מדינה פלסטינית, היא ירדן. אבל אתם רוצים לעצמכם שלוש פלסטין - ירדן , "פלסטין החדשה" שתקום ברצועת עזה והגדה, וכמובן שערביי ישראל המזהים עצמם כפלסטינים ימשיכו להתגורר בישראל ויביאו אליהם עוד ועוד "אחים" פלסטינים מרחבי העולם. כך שבעוד עשור או שניים יהיו היהודים מיעוט בארצם וגם ישראל תהפוך לפלסטין. לא מתאים לנו .
ולכן זה מה שבסופו של דבר יקרה, גם אם השמאל שלנו מפזר אשליות הממלאות את לבכם תקווה גדולה: יהיה עליכם לחזור לארצות מולדתכם. זה יקרה או בטוב או בחרב .
במשך השנים (עם ההתיישבות הציונית) אימצתם לעצמכם את האתוס היהודי, כלומר - קדושת ירושלים וזכות השיבה לציון. אמנם בניתם מסגד במרכז קודש הקודשים היהודי (מנהג מוסלמי נפוץ בעולמנו), אך עירכם הקדושה היא מכה ולא ירושלים וזכות שיבה יש לכם רק למולדתכם הערבית ולא לציון .
לסיכום, אפנה אותך לספר חביב ומלא הומור. שמו "מסע תענוגות בארץ הקודש" והוא נכתב ע" י סופר בשם סמואל לונגהורן (הידוע בכינויו מרק טווין) ב -1867. הוא סייר בישראל לאורכה ולרוחבה .
הוא לא ראה כאן לא פלסטינים, לא בוסתנים מוריקים, לא כפרים ערביים, לא ערים שוקקות. כלום. הוא ראה ומתאר עזובה, ביצות, כולרע, קדחת, חולות . "ארץ הבכא", כך הוא כינה את ארץ ישראל .
כל מה שיש כאן, גן העדן הזה הנקרא ישראל – בנה הגניוס היהודי .
אין פלא שאת ואחייך חומדים אותו !
ואם את יושבת בביתך המחובר לחשמל ומקלידה תשובה במחשב , זה כי הציונים סידרו כאן מדינה המאפשרת לך לחיות ברמה שונה לחלוטין משל 99% מאחיותייך במדינות ערב .
אזרחית יהודיה ישראלית,
בעלת המקום.